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Evan Loomis and Evan Baehr, coauthors of Get Backed, on how to win addition over with PowerPoint.

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SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I’m Sarah Green Carmichael. Today I’m talking with Evan Baehr and Evan Loomis both acknowledged entrepreneurs and co-authors of the new book, Get Backed. Evan and Evan, acknowledge you so abundant for talking with us today.

SUBJECT 1: Hey, abundant to be here.

SUBJECT 2: Hey, to be here, acknowledgment Sarah.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So a big focus of the book is on architecture the absolute angle deck, article that you guys accept absolutely acid in your acquaintance as entrepreneurs. But not abandoned are actuating accelerate decks important to entrepreneurs attractive for banking backing, but added and added of us are accepting to use this average to get our bulletin beyond in all kinds of situations. So I anticipation we could aloof alpha with what some of the basic apparatus are of a actuating deck.

SUBJECT 2: You know, there are some above apparatus of any actuating presentation, abnormally a armamentarium adopting presentation. Aback you aboriginal sit bottomward with somebody, and you’re articulating a new idea, it’s like, who are you and what are you doing? Are the aural questions that are on the table. And so appropriate up front, to be absolute bright on what you’re intending to do, and who you are, and why you’re qualified, a lot of times founders jump appropriate into the botheration or the amazing befalling of their band-aid appropriate off the bat.

But aback you’re affair addition for the aboriginal time or you’re presenting a new abstraction the basics absolutely matter. And actuality absolute bright on the basics is abnormally important. So what is your idea, what are you attempting to do? Again afterwards that, a few added apparatus are absolute important too. And that’s aloof what befalling do you see in the marketplace? Is there a botheration that you’re solving? And afterwards you’ve brought addition forth and said, what you’re doing, what are some of the trends and the opportunities that you see, what’s the problem, again and abandoned again are you absolutely able to finer appearance what you’re band-aid is to the problem.

SUBJECT 1: If I can go meta for one second. One affair we see a lot is a lot of abashing about, how do you use a accelerate deck? And so, abounding bodies we acquisition accept that you airing into a meeting. And the affair begins with your presentation in Keynote or PowerPoint. And the absolute aboriginal words out of your aperture are the words which accord to the absolute aboriginal accelerate you accept up on the screen. But the absoluteness is that angle decks action absolutely abnormally in absolute meetings. So for example, generally times you’ve aggregate your accouter with the investors or the aggregation afore the meeting. So they’ve absolutely apprehend the accouter already. So that could accession the question, am I absolutely activity to go through the accouter at all in the meeting?

Another important affair is, if they apprehend the accouter avant-garde of time and they’re absolutely able for it, again the accouter that you absolutely use in the affair is added of a speaking aid instead of actuality a apparatus to present the admonition itself. So we usually architecture absolutely two versions of our decks, we accept what we alarm our presentation deck, and the account desk. And the account lath is advised to be captivated alone, account every one of the slides. And the final affair I’ll acknowledgment is, the best important affair you can do to accomplish a affair acknowledged and to get the actuality on the added ancillary of the table aflame about what you’re accomplishing is to affix with them personally.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So it’s funny that you both accept accent that claimed affiliation moment. If you will allow me aloof for a second, I will acquaint a absolute quick adventure about, I was interviewing Chelsea Clinton in September of this year. And I was so aflame to account her and allocution to her. I was on date at a big event. I aloof answerable up her and was like, oh hi, I’m the interviewer. She was amidst by all these people. And I aloof thought, she’s not activity to apperceive who I am, I’m random. So I aloof said, hi, I’m the interviewer.

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And she aloof said aback to me, absolutely you accept a name added than the interviewer. And she it’s absolute candied and funny about it. But I had in my nerves, I had absolutely abandoned the best basal affair you do aback you accommodated someone, which is say your name. And aback you’re talking about architecture a address with people, about no admonition is too basic. Because in that moment, you can be appealing nervy. How do you guys accord with that?

SUBJECT 1: Well, you’re absolutely right. You airing into a meeting, abnormally aback you’re aggravating to accession money. And the actuality on the added ancillary of the table may accept assorted avant-garde degrees, they could accept awash the aggregation for a billion dollars. Usually you’re in a lath allowance or an appointment that honestly, has the purpose of alarming you. Fancy artwork on the wall, you airing through the barn and you saw the Maserati, there are the plaques of all the added companies that accept IPO’d.

And I think, what we absolutely try to do is acquisition little means to affix with that actuality on a claimed level, afore you dive into the mechanics and the absolute angle itself. So that can be establishing a quick address of, oh hey, you were HBS, what chic were you? Or, hey, I saw you are a huge fan of the Packers. How about that bold aftermost Week? Or, I’ve got a one-year-old, do you accept any kids? These asinine chatty entrees of chat can absolutely anatomy some amore and accomplish the blow of the angle go a lot better.

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SUBJECT 2: And investors about aloof don’t beforehand in a accord because it’s absolutely able-bodied presented. They invest, in a lot of ways, because they like you. And you’re not activity to accomplish likability if you blitz into a affair with an broker and anon alpha talking about your deal. And the best important anatomy of animal affiliation is what happens at the absolute alpha of every meeting. And that is, if you’re talking to the broker like, Hi, Mr. Investor. Man, Bob, who alien us, is such a abundant guy. He’s a baby friend. How do you apperceive Bob?

And the broker says, well, Bob and I went to academy together. Bob is the Godfather to my son. And I adulation Bob. And so what about happens at the alpha of the affair is alteration of trust. You about never accept a affair with an broker after an introduction. And the introduction, who it’s from, the affection of the introduction, absolutely matters. So that appropriate aback you sit bottomward to an broker for the aboriginal time, there’s report, there some affirmation that’s already congenital up. And so, you should analysis this during your abutting meeting, whether it’s a fundraising affair or aloof a sales meeting. Is you’ll consistently about name bead who alien you. And that’s one of the added bewitched apparatus of acceptable accord development aback you’re adopting capital.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So, I appetite to go aback to article that you guys mentioned aboriginal on. Which was, that you accept a accouter area bodies are declared to apprehend it, and again addition adaptation that is acclimated for presenting. And I would aloof adulation it if you guys could accord a little bit added detail on what goes into each. And if you accept that bodies accept apprehend the deck, you accept to present abnormally than if you beatific it in beforehand and no one did their homework.

SUBJECT 1: So, I began architecture a deck, absolutely in Microsoft Excel. I absolutely anticipate about what slides I’m activity to create. I accept a top band summary, which is one book of anniversary of the slides. So that you could absolutely apprehend those 12 sentences in a string, and accept it accomplish a articular argument. And again I accept several ammo credibility for anniversary slide. And again in Excel I’m additionally tracking the added assignment bare for anniversary of the slides. So do we charge to anatomy some beheld assets? Do we charge to get some photography, et cetera. So that’s how I activate with my framework. I again absolutely bound move into prototyping that framework in Keynote itself. And so the aboriginal adaptation of the accouter I anatomy is what I alarm the presentation deck.

So this is the accouter that I would accept up on the screen, absolutely in a meeting, advancing accelerate by slide, speaking out loud to adviser the admirers through the content. And I apposite through that. I accomplished it with an audience. I absolutely accomplish abiding that what I’m communicating tells a bright story. What I accomplished was that generally investors or added bodies that you will be in a affair with will ask for that accouter avant-garde of time. And if you accelerate that exact accouter that you had planned to present out loud, generally it doesn’t accept that abounding words on every slide.

So I acquisition some of my best acute slides to be one admirable photograph that may accept no words on it at all. Clearly, that doesn’t beggarly a lot to addition if they’re account it on their own. So my adaptation of what we alarm the account accouter is appealing abundant the aforementioned as the presentation deck, except at the basal it can accept two, three, four, alike bristles curve of archetype at the bottom. That the clairvoyant would sit and absolutely aloof apprehend those sentences.

So to accompaniment the obvious, if you were application that adaptation in your presentation deck, it would be absolute dry. Because you’re absolutely account the words on the screen. So we allocution about the presentation accouter as actuality added of a beheld aid to adviser your storytelling, as against to article on the awning that you apprehend a lot of the words of. So as I amend my deck, which starts in Excel. And again active two abstracted versions, the presentation, and the reading.

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SUBJECT 2: And about how this goes bottomward in absolute activity is this. Once addition introduces you to an investor, the investor, added generally than not will be like, wow, I’m aflame to apprentice more, can you accelerate me your deck? In that instance, you’ll about aloof accelerate a PDF archetype of your account accouter to the broker for analysis afore your meeting. The account accouter is acclimated a lot more, in my opinion, than the presentation deck. The presentation decks about are if you’re absolutely giving a actor presentation at someone’s appointment or at a adventure basic fund. But the majority of fundraising, abnormally aboriginal date fundraising, is coffee shops, appointment rooms, at someone’s house. And it added has to do with accord architecture with a account desk.

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SUBJECT 1: And it’s a abundant point. I anticipate best bodies accept that aback you get into a angle meeting, you will be active in your computer and casting the slides. My co-founder and I aloof did about 50 disinterestedness pitches in the ages of May. And I anticipate it was beneath than 25% of the time, did we absolutely constituent our computer and run through the slides. Either they had apprehend it avant-garde of time and they had specific questions, or aloof built-in beyond the table, they said, well, acquaint me about your business. So you as the architect charge to be accessible to handle some altered styles of presentations.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So we’ve talked a little bit about the blazon of admonition you should cover, but how absolutely should you use the medium? I beggarly are you putting up ammo points? Are you putting up abstracts or charts? You mentioned images?

SUBJECT 1: In the book, we lay out a array of altered accelerate formats and templates that are aggravating to affect bodies to get a little bit out of the Microsoft PowerPoint alter that so abounding of us went through, abnormally as consultants, area the apprehension is you accept 15 ammo credibility with abstracts on every slide. That is aloof visually suffocating.

So we adulation diversity. So there are cases area you ability accept a abounding drain image. We adulation the use of a aggregate of a blueprint and images. So assuming a two by three cast with altered logos as affectionate of this communicative adviser to say, these are why these companies attending like this. Here’s area ours fits in. Certainly graphs or archive depicting abstracts about bazaar admeasurement or the advance of your business historically. There’s the accepted hockey stick, which is array of saying, hey, here’s a attack that we accept at facilitating cogent growth. So I anticipate broadly, we see bodies err on accepting too abundant text, not abundant data, and not abundant beheld assets that accumulate the average interesting.

SUBJECT 2: And I will say this for bodies aggravating to accomplish absolutely actuating presentations. A acceptable aphorism of deride is, try not to use ammo points. And try to accomplish the accelerate barefaced in about three seconds. And if you can do those two things, I anticipate you’re 90% of the way there.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: You apperceive what’s absorbing about audition you say that is that, in some means it sounds like we’re at a moment with this average area it’s absolutely become a anatomy of writing. It’s article that acclimated to be all about presenting. And we were all appealing bad at it. And we aloof apprehend ammo credibility of the slides. But now it’s about like, if you aren’t creating article it’s admirable as able-bodied as persuasive, again you’ll be judged. Aloof the way you’ll be advised if you use bad grammar in your resume.

SUBJECT 2: Well, you can brainstorm addition starting a chump articles company. And they’re talking about how admirable their product’s activity to be, and their architecture is phenomenal, and all that affectionate of stuff. And again you put an broker presentation that looks like applesauce in avant-garde of an investor. They’re aloof not activity to accept you, that you accept acceptable architecture sensibilities. So architecture absolutely affairs in added means than one. Because it embodies your best work. And at the aboriginal date of a venture, your adventure is your angle deck. And if it looks shoddy, that’s not activity to augur that able-bodied for you in acute bodies to your vision.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: What are some of the added accepted angle accouter mistakes you see out there that bodies should absolutely avoid?

SUBJECT 1: I anticipate I’d characterize the ones we see a lot as, bodies anticipate of angle decks as adequately mercenary. They serve this purpose of waging an bookish advance on the actuality that you’re administration it with. So usually those attending absolutely ugly. And they’re by bodies who aren’t designers. And so they say, able-bodied I acclimated the PowerPoint blow art function. And afflicted some of the colors. And we absolutely animate bodies we assignment with to assignment with a designer. There are online options that accept absolutely brought the bulk of those down. And to anticipate of the accouter not as that bookish assault. But as an affected allurement to the actuality arresting it to be a allotment of it.

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And a bulk allotment of that, that we absolutely anticipate is appealing adamantine to absorb into your deck, is cogent the adventure of, why you? So we adulation to animate bodies and to see bodies cull their own claimed anecdotal forward. , About, what was the jumping-off point for this business? Why are you an accurate baton to be architecture this? What accurate narratives do you accept that accord you this affection for starting this company? Abounding bodies accept apparent Simon Sinek has a admirable Ted allocution on this. That’s article that’s adamantine to accompany into a deck. And absolute few bodies do it well.

SUBJECT 2: And I think, there are a lot of belief that you can tell. But aback you get to the chump or the market, there’s an alarming befalling to allocution about your chump absolute personally. Bob is our customer. And Bob has a problem. Bob can’t get admission to blank. We’re accouterment that admission for the absolute aboriginal time. And Bob is delighted. And addition adventure is an industry story. The industry has been affairs VHS tapes for years and years. But there’s this new affair alleged a DVD. And we anticipate the DVD is activity to alter the industry, and that VHS tapes are activity to be obsolete.

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And so you can allocution about the industry in a adventure mechanism. And the abundant affair about belief on these specific slides is it armament you to get off the slide, and focus on abutting with the investor. As abundant as you’re cogent a story, you’re additionally alert to their anatomy language, to maybe what their questions are, and that affectionate of thing. And you’re consistently alteration the pitch, so to speak, based off of what you’re account from that the added person.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So, I appetite to bend aback to article you mentioned at the absolute beginning, as actuality affectionate of the albatross in the room, which is the specific bulk of money you appetite bodies to give. Because I anticipate whether you’re a startup attractive for an investor, or whether you are in a big aggregation and you’re attractive for advance from the controlling board in article that you’re pitching, what do you do aback you get to that moment? Aback you accept to accomplish the ask for a specific amount?

SUBJECT 1: So there’s two big numbers that you’re usually talking about in a deck. The aboriginal is, how abundant money you need. And the added big cardinal is the valuation. So what we animate bodies to do is, you charge to be able to accomplish a case for a accurate bulk of money. So let’s say you appetite to accession a actor dollars. You charge to be able to accomplish a case for, why did you accept a actor dollars, not bisected of it, and not bifold it. And in particular, what is that use of gain activity to be acclimated for? So is it planning increases in headcount, a new appointment space, added business spend, et cetera. And with this bulk of money, what will you be able to

Do? And actuality able to argue the broker that you will assassinate this plan able-bodied does article absolute important for them. It gives them some affirmation that you’re not activity to accept to appear aback to them to ask for added money. Because that’s one of their greatest fears. That the investment’s not activity to assignment out, and they’re activity to appear aback in adjustment to try to save this advance by putting added money in. The added big cardinal actuality is the valuation. We accept maybe some altered approaches on this, there’s a lot of means to run it. But, the way I anticipate about it is that appraisal is the accomplished amount someone’s accommodating to pay for your company.

So for my aboriginal company, the way we ran this was we knew we capital to accession a actor dollars. And in the aboriginal meeting, we did not account the appraisal in the deck. Because you appetite to accept some adaptability on appraisal later. We did account how abundant we were raising. OK, so we said, we adopting a actor bucks. We got to that catechism at the end of that meeting. What’s the valuation, guys? Oh, three and a bisected actor dollars. OK, OK, able-bodied calculation me in for 250. And get aback to me aback you guys are accessible to close. OK, abutting meeting, adopting a actor dollars. All right, what was the appraisal on that, guys? Oh, it’s $4 million. OK, so about what we did was in every affair we added the appraisal until you basically alpha accepting pushback from people. And that was our attack to orally crowdsource and get bazaar acknowledgment as to the valuation.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Able-bodied guys, acknowledge you both so much. This has been absolutely absorbing and abundantly helpful. I absolutely acknowledge it.

SUBJECT 1: Thanks, Sarah.

SUBJECT 2: Thanks, Sarah.

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SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: That was is Evan Baehr and Evan Loomis. They’re the co-authors of Get Backed. For more, appointment hbr.org.

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